Guess who wrote back??
Nov. 13th, 2005 08:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wheelieterpI got a reply from Rubber willy! It, and my response are
Steve:
Thank you for your message. As you are the second person in just as many days to bring this issues to light I will share with you the same information I have shared with another individual. As I do not make assumptions about you, I would ask that you please not make assumptions about myself or our event. I very much understand that transgender issues are an emotional subject, however sweeping generalization in one direction or another will not help to advance any cause, but only serve to alienate.
While as weekend coordinator I do not have the power to single handedly change the rules of the contest, your message comes at a point of transition for our contest. We are just now completing our 9th year in existance, and next year we are planning a 10th year anniversary. Our contest was also recently sold to a new owner and at the conclusion of this years events we will be thoroughly reviewing each aspect of the contest and making revisions and changes in a number of areas to bring the contest more into line with the new owners thinking and updating policies and procedures that have not been addressed in the ten years since our contest came into being.
I cannot say how that will end, but I can say that I will take your concern, speak with my colleagues who coordinate other contests and do my best to make sure the decision is weighed fairly and fully prior to the next years contest. I believe that the rules for the contest that you see posted were cobbled together several years ago from the rules of several other men's fetish contests which were posted on the internet.
I have always said that I have immense amounts of respect for the Rubbermen who have the courage to step on stage and proclaim their rubber fetish for the world to see, and I personally feel an even greater amount of respect for those in the Trans community who step up and voice their thoughts and demand their rights in a respectful manner in an effort to effect change. In today's society this is not an easy thing to do, and I wish to express my deepest respect and support for this cause.
This issue cuts to the heart of the gay male fetish community and our seemingly non-stop pursuit of hyper-masculinity. It effects many people in different ways, and both side can be quite vocal regarding their version of the issue. I wish that our community was as accepting in practice as we are in theory, but as you are well aware this is not always the case. Trans men and women seem to be the current frontier that leather folk, to a large extent, and rubber folk, to the extent that rubber in the states is a neophyte off-shoot of leather, are currently discussing in great extent. We could engage in hours, weeks and days of dialogue on this topic, but I don't presume to be the expert and will never know personally all of the issues from personal experience and decisions that transgendered individuals face in their life. Again, you have my deepest respect and support in your efforts for societal change.
While our website a photos may lead one to believe that this contest is run by an army of employees and like a well oiled machine, please know that it has never had the full attention and focus that many of us believe that it should. This stretches from the behind the scenes planning to the activities on stage.
Thank you for your message and please know that I will be sure to include this in our discussions as we begin planning for MIR2007.
I do hope you will be able to attend our little event in the future. This point has been heard loud and clear and I will ensure that there is a discussion of the matter in the next few months as we re-tool our events.
Regards and deepest thanks,
William "Rubberwilli" Schendel
MIR2003 and Weekend Coordinator
My reply
William,
I must say I was suprised to recieve a reply at all, and such a well thought out reply was even more shocking. While I would like to say that my outrage and fears have been calmed by your words, I am afraid I cannot. However, your attempt at reaching out a hand in peace is noted and respected.
Having said that, allow me a bit of time to explain (PERHAPS a bit more clamly, but I can't promise anything) the way I see it:
You ask that I not make assumptions about you or your staff based on the rules that I read on your applicant application. But you and your staff POSTED those rules and then stepped up as representitives of your organization by putting your email address as the contact. Those rules did not magically appear on the web site. I am afraid that, as contact person, you are held responsible for that which you put your name on.
About that rule. The wording of your rule goes BEYOND attempting to define who participates and who does not, and ACTIVELY works to discriminate against people who are members of our community. And not new members, either. It may look to you like Trans men and women are "The frontier" and that their issues are new and time is needed for adjustment, but the fact is, our "Community" was STARTED by an act of rebellion commited BY trans people. The idea that addressing the discrimination of trans folks within the gay and/or leather/fetish/bdsm communities is new and therefore we should all be patient is a bit insulting in its inaccuracy. Time has long since passed when it is acceptable that people in these communities expect trans folks and their allies "Respectfully" look for social change and come, hats in hands, to humbly ASK for change that should have never had to happen.
Your rule does not say that a contestant should be male from birth, as SOMEONE knew that trans folks are completing a journey to make their outsides match who they are, and have been since birth. The rule was worded to close that loop hole by saying BIOLOGICALLY male since birth. Can you not see the ugliness and the blatent opression in the very words of that rule? It goes beyond just saying "Men only" to force an outdated and frankly erroneous definition of what a man is. That is why your rule is hurtful and why the outrage at its existance is a personal attack and cannot and will not be met with a calm, rational, "Respectful" or patient response.
I appreciate that you will take these issues to the floor for the planning of your next event. I really do. I feel that perhaps my letter, while not intended as vehicle to change your contest, but merley as an expression of utter outrage at the before mentioned personal attack, MAYBE it did some good. More than likely, it was the other person's letter. But that is neither here nor there. The point is, I am holding you to those words. I am affording you the respect, as a fellow leather/fetish/BDSM community member, that you will do as you say and bring this issue to discuss. Don't "Kick it upstairs" in order to wash your hands of it. Remember, you put your name on this. Fair or not, I AM holding you responsible. I know that you don't have the power to single handedly change the rules, but if you are as fair minded and have as deep a respect and support for the trans cause as you claim, then perhaps you will find a way to be persuasive in an organization that you consent to represent.
I will be watching the future of your event, and hopefully, one day, I will be able to attend.
Sincerely,
Steve Nail.
Steve:
Thank you for your message. As you are the second person in just as many days to bring this issues to light I will share with you the same information I have shared with another individual. As I do not make assumptions about you, I would ask that you please not make assumptions about myself or our event. I very much understand that transgender issues are an emotional subject, however sweeping generalization in one direction or another will not help to advance any cause, but only serve to alienate.
While as weekend coordinator I do not have the power to single handedly change the rules of the contest, your message comes at a point of transition for our contest. We are just now completing our 9th year in existance, and next year we are planning a 10th year anniversary. Our contest was also recently sold to a new owner and at the conclusion of this years events we will be thoroughly reviewing each aspect of the contest and making revisions and changes in a number of areas to bring the contest more into line with the new owners thinking and updating policies and procedures that have not been addressed in the ten years since our contest came into being.
I cannot say how that will end, but I can say that I will take your concern, speak with my colleagues who coordinate other contests and do my best to make sure the decision is weighed fairly and fully prior to the next years contest. I believe that the rules for the contest that you see posted were cobbled together several years ago from the rules of several other men's fetish contests which were posted on the internet.
I have always said that I have immense amounts of respect for the Rubbermen who have the courage to step on stage and proclaim their rubber fetish for the world to see, and I personally feel an even greater amount of respect for those in the Trans community who step up and voice their thoughts and demand their rights in a respectful manner in an effort to effect change. In today's society this is not an easy thing to do, and I wish to express my deepest respect and support for this cause.
This issue cuts to the heart of the gay male fetish community and our seemingly non-stop pursuit of hyper-masculinity. It effects many people in different ways, and both side can be quite vocal regarding their version of the issue. I wish that our community was as accepting in practice as we are in theory, but as you are well aware this is not always the case. Trans men and women seem to be the current frontier that leather folk, to a large extent, and rubber folk, to the extent that rubber in the states is a neophyte off-shoot of leather, are currently discussing in great extent. We could engage in hours, weeks and days of dialogue on this topic, but I don't presume to be the expert and will never know personally all of the issues from personal experience and decisions that transgendered individuals face in their life. Again, you have my deepest respect and support in your efforts for societal change.
While our website a photos may lead one to believe that this contest is run by an army of employees and like a well oiled machine, please know that it has never had the full attention and focus that many of us believe that it should. This stretches from the behind the scenes planning to the activities on stage.
Thank you for your message and please know that I will be sure to include this in our discussions as we begin planning for MIR2007.
I do hope you will be able to attend our little event in the future. This point has been heard loud and clear and I will ensure that there is a discussion of the matter in the next few months as we re-tool our events.
Regards and deepest thanks,
William "Rubberwilli" Schendel
MIR2003 and Weekend Coordinator
William,
I must say I was suprised to recieve a reply at all, and such a well thought out reply was even more shocking. While I would like to say that my outrage and fears have been calmed by your words, I am afraid I cannot. However, your attempt at reaching out a hand in peace is noted and respected.
Having said that, allow me a bit of time to explain (PERHAPS a bit more clamly, but I can't promise anything) the way I see it:
You ask that I not make assumptions about you or your staff based on the rules that I read on your applicant application. But you and your staff POSTED those rules and then stepped up as representitives of your organization by putting your email address as the contact. Those rules did not magically appear on the web site. I am afraid that, as contact person, you are held responsible for that which you put your name on.
About that rule. The wording of your rule goes BEYOND attempting to define who participates and who does not, and ACTIVELY works to discriminate against people who are members of our community. And not new members, either. It may look to you like Trans men and women are "The frontier" and that their issues are new and time is needed for adjustment, but the fact is, our "Community" was STARTED by an act of rebellion commited BY trans people. The idea that addressing the discrimination of trans folks within the gay and/or leather/fetish/bdsm communities is new and therefore we should all be patient is a bit insulting in its inaccuracy. Time has long since passed when it is acceptable that people in these communities expect trans folks and their allies "Respectfully" look for social change and come, hats in hands, to humbly ASK for change that should have never had to happen.
Your rule does not say that a contestant should be male from birth, as SOMEONE knew that trans folks are completing a journey to make their outsides match who they are, and have been since birth. The rule was worded to close that loop hole by saying BIOLOGICALLY male since birth. Can you not see the ugliness and the blatent opression in the very words of that rule? It goes beyond just saying "Men only" to force an outdated and frankly erroneous definition of what a man is. That is why your rule is hurtful and why the outrage at its existance is a personal attack and cannot and will not be met with a calm, rational, "Respectful" or patient response.
I appreciate that you will take these issues to the floor for the planning of your next event. I really do. I feel that perhaps my letter, while not intended as vehicle to change your contest, but merley as an expression of utter outrage at the before mentioned personal attack, MAYBE it did some good. More than likely, it was the other person's letter. But that is neither here nor there. The point is, I am holding you to those words. I am affording you the respect, as a fellow leather/fetish/BDSM community member, that you will do as you say and bring this issue to discuss. Don't "Kick it upstairs" in order to wash your hands of it. Remember, you put your name on this. Fair or not, I AM holding you responsible. I know that you don't have the power to single handedly change the rules, but if you are as fair minded and have as deep a respect and support for the trans cause as you claim, then perhaps you will find a way to be persuasive in an organization that you consent to represent.
I will be watching the future of your event, and hopefully, one day, I will be able to attend.
Sincerely,
Steve Nail.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 04:59 pm (UTC)My bet is if there is a lot of overlap with CHC guys, it will be a long time before that rule is changed.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 05:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 05:52 pm (UTC)It makes me want to rub your head, too. :)
no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 07:39 pm (UTC)and, yeah, what ink_ling said... makes me wanna rub your heads.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 11:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-16 06:33 am (UTC)very cool.
romham :)